Model 12 as center of my studio

[Johnny Mixtape]

Hi guys.
Nice to be here. Nice to meet you all.

So, I'm considering buying a Model 12. Been checking out some YouTube videos and it seems great.
Got a couple of questions, maybe you guys can help.

So, after 5 years or so, I finally came to the conclusion that to return to happier musical times I need to do away as possible with the PC.
I used to be very productive and write loads of music. Since I moved to a DAW based system my productivity and come to think of it, my playing have grind to a halt.

I'm very easily distracted and very curious, and the PC with internet, DAW customizing (I use REAPER), etc at a click away is super distracting and I find myself continuously getting distracted when trying to write anything. Been trying to devise strategies to cope with it, but finally threw in the towel.
I'm now convinced that the best thing is to return to simpler setups. A guitar, me, tape recorder. In this case a Model 12.

The problem is I'm very dependent on EZDrummer. It's my go to drum machine. Took a peek at hardware but didn't find anything that will probably fill that gap and integrate well with my workflow. And cheap!

So, my question is, can I have a session where I have REAPER with EZDrummer loaded but only acting as a drum machine feeding a stereo input of the model 12 through USB, while at same time having a microphone and a guitar also going in live into the Model 12?
Can this setup be used to record into the SD card and maybe at the same time into REAPER (just for backup) through USB?

My idea is to try as much as possible to work out of the box, making the Model 12 the center of the session, while retaining the PC as sort of just drum machine and backup recorder, and maybe the occasional VSTi driven by a MIDI keyboard.

Ideas?

Cheers

 

[Logrinn]

Hi Johnny Mixtape,

The problems you're describing is exactly the same I've found me having for years and the solution for me have been the Model 12.
What you're asking is more or less the way I use the Model 12.
I'll try to explain;

1. I sit and play my guitar and when I come up with some riff or idea that I want to record, I turn on my Akai MPC Live (my version of drum machine, ie like your EZ Drummer).
   I have a template on it that auto loads with a very basic drum pattern that I'll use as a click track.
   
2. I find the tempo for my idea, let's say 135 bpm and then put the MPC in slave mode.
3. I then turn on my Model 12, that always have the stuff I need already connected (mic from my guitar speaker cabinet, midi out to MPC midi in, 2 line in from the MPC etc), and dial in the tempo I found worked for this idea, ie 135 bpm.
4. I then record my guitar on track 1 while the MPC gets recorded (its very basic groove) on track 9 & 10.*
5. I turn off the MPC as I won't be using this for a while.
6. I move my guitar track 1 to another track and can now record more guitar on track 1.
7. I move this new guitar track 1 to another track and record even more guitar (or bass) on track 1 and so on.
8. When stuff are beginning to sound good I can go back to my MPC and do some more serious drum programming with fills, different grooves etc and then rerecord this on track 9 & 10 again to make a more polished song. This new "better" drum programming will overwrite the previous basic "click track"-groove.
9. When stuff are beginning to sound like they should, I turn off the Model 12, take out the SD card, first now turn on my computer, pops the SD card into the computer and drag the files to Reaper where I can do mixing and editing.

With this workflow I'm able to record ideas and whole songs in fact in a short period of time.
And the most important thing, for me at least, is that I've divided the creative song writing part on the Model 12 (in a fast and efficient way) and the more "tedious" editing part on my computer.

I think you should be able to do something similar by substituting the MPC above with your EZ Drummer software. But don't forget to turn the computer off once the first basic groove is recorded, since you don't want to be distracted by the evil that is computers and internet.

* If I only have a few bars of ideas for my guitar part at first, I record these few bars, but still allow the Model 12 to record several minutes of "click track"- groove from the MPC, so I can continue to build on the song later. Remember - this 200 bar or so click track will later on be overwritten with the more finished drum programming - that perhaps might be only 100 bars or something like that.

 

[Johnny Mixtape]

Hi Logrinn

Thank you.
We do have an almost exact MO
That's more or less my idea. Even then transfering from the Model 12 to Reaper at a later stage for some polishing. I just want the creative side of things to happen without my scattered brain getting in the way tempted by some "maybe I should check this or that in YouTube" or whatever...
I will just use my oldish laptop for EZDrummer and some freeware VSTi. No net or anything else. It's not the internet that's evil but me that gets tempted and lost in there
I've actually found my way here because of Youtube dude 424 Recording. Great stuff on that channel.

My only concern is can I use the drums from a reaper session through a USB connection while recording real world instruments.


On another note, how you finding the MPC? Does that do something like the Song Creator in EZ Drummer? Like importing patterns in MIDI files and then chaining them?

 

[Logrinn]

My only concern is can I use the drums from a reaper session through a USB connection while recording real world instruments.

I would imagine that it's possible (haven't tried it, so I can't tell for sure), but - for me - the less I involve a DAW during the creative process the better. That's why I wait until most of my guitar - or other real world instruments - recordings are done before I transfer everything to Reaper and start working from there.

On another note, how you finding the MPC? Does that do something like the Song Creator in EZ Drummer? Like importing patterns in MIDI files and then chaining them?

The Akai MPC - while a powerful sampler and sequencer - is a very different animal compared to something like EZ Drummer in a DAW. It's obvious that's it's geared towards more electronic genres, with a lot of real time manipulation and less to emulate a "real" drummer. That said, it's capable of doing most everything - in fact you could record complete songs on it, with real world instruments and all, as it also has audio track recording incorperated in it's sequencer.
And, yes, it reads MIDI files and you can chain patterns into songs. I'm not familiar with the Song Creator function in EZ Drummer, so I can't speak of similarities or differences.

 

[Freebird]

Hi Johnny.
My workflow is the same as what you want to do: Below I quote myself from another thread.

First I compose a "preliminary" drum track in Superior Drummer 3 that follows most of how my song is arranged, intro, verse, bridge, chorus, soloparts, ending, etc, and then I convert the midi to a wav-file. Then I also compose a "preliminary" Keyboard track in EZkeys using a combination of midi and my own "analog" playing to go along with the drums, and then I convert them also to wav-files... all inside Presonus Studio One. Then I route those tracks/wav-files the right way out to Model 24. Usually recording them on stereo tracks 17/18 & 19/20 respectively.

Then I turn of the computer. And now the really FUN starts!

Now I can use the Model 24 as a place to practice & record guitar, bass, harmonica, singing or anything that uses a microphone, amps etc without even have the computer connected. I lay down different instruments on different channels, testing different ideas, overdubs and whatever I want to use with the drums and keyboard as a "backing track" for building up the song. This is actually the real reason for me wanting to use an "outboard" mixer/recorder like Model 24. I want the "freedom" to skip the "harassment" of a computer when I want to be musically creative. No "computer startup time" and other "computer related" glitches and hiccups... just to plug in and PLAY when inspiration hits you. Model 24 works much like an old "tape-machine" or Porta Studio 244 ... just "plug & play"!

When I am satisfied with the result I simply transfer/record all channels on the model 24 to their respectively channel in my Daw. But I do NOT transferring the 2 channel main mix tracks on channels 22-24 since I have no use of them since I will do the real mixdown later in my DAW.

(OR maybe I will route everything back to model 24 for final mixdown/mastering there when the song in my DAW is finished... just to get some (I suppose) imagined "analogue warmth feeling" added before or during final mastering)

Back in my DAW I now have the original drum & keyboard midi-files still present in my song project, alongside everything I have recorded on the Model 24. For example: On mono channels 1-12 I have the recordings that I have done on Model 24. Stereo channel 17/18 have my drums as midi-files available for more fine tuning of the drums in Superior 3. And on stereo channel 19/20 I have my keyboard midi-files also ready for more fine tuning in EZkeys. Stereo channels 13/14 & 15/16 & 21/22 (the Bluetooth channel) are still empty and ready for further use with other digital instruments.

After this I start mixing in Studio One and make use of different vst's, compressors, reverbs, delays, limiters etc. I may use a bit of Melodyne to correct small singing mistakes here and there just to polish things up. Maybe record some backup vocals, maracas etc on the still not in use channels etc.

To sum it up:
1.Creating a "backing track"(drums/keyboards) in my DAW.
2.Transfer/recording the waw-files to Model 24
3.Rehearsing and recording the "analog" REAL instruments for the song.
4.Transer all channels exept "MainMix" 22/24 back to DAW.
5.Finetuning/arranging my midi drums and keyboards in Superior Drummer & EZkeys.
6.If neccessery record my own "real" keyboard.
7.Adding effects & Mixing/Mastering inPresonus Studio One Daw.
8.(task in progress)By Presonus Faderport 8 or 16 for better workflow in DAW.

Hope this are helpful!

 

[Johnny Mixtape]

Thank you both for your posts.
Logrinn, gonna check out the MPC! Thank you for pointing me towards that.
Freebird, awesome post! That's mostly the workflow I'm trying to emulate!

Great stuff! You guys removed my doubts! Model 12 ordered!

Thumbs up! Cheers

 

[Blue Monster 65]

You could also try the Toraiz SP-16. It's nowhere near as complicated as any of the MPC line, but does offer both XOX-style programming as well as pads to play. I'm not sure if you could run MIDI files into it for your drums, but I don't see why not (I've never done so).

Mind you, it has its limitations, but that's part of the beauty of it in my opinion. I find it super easy to get around on and very inspiring in its way.

Just another thought ...